***The following interview contains spoilers for 7.12***

On AMC’s most recent episode of Fear the Walking Dead, in order to get Strand (Colman Domingo)’s ear, John Dorie Sr. (Keith Carradine) planted a walkie on Howard (Omid Abtahi), Strand’s right hand man. Towards the end of the episode, although Strand knew the truth, he tasked Dorie with throwing Howard off the roof, and he complied, hoping that earning Strand’s favor would protect Baby Mo. However, in the end, knowing that Strand wouldn’t change, Dorie knocked him out and took Mo to Morgan (Lennie James), getting bit by a walker in the process.

Carradine, who found out before filming the back half of season seven about his character’s demise, recently talked to SciFi Vision in an exclusive interview about Dorie’s motivations in the episode. “John had one over overriding concern, which was Mo and what is going to be best for that child,” explained Carradine. “I think that he could have gone either way, in terms of which side he came down on, in terms of who he was going to work with and cooperate with, as long as the end result was going to be the survival of that child under the best possible circumstances. So, I think that as he was dealing with Strand and Strand’s paranoia and obvious, complete unpredictability about how he might respond to any given situation. I think that he simply took every moment as it came and would make decisions in that time as to whether that was going to lead to him being able to do the best thing for the child. Then, finally, as you saw in the episode, when push came to shove, he had to make the choice that he made.”

Had Strand not forced Dorie to kill Howard in the end, would he have continued to stay loyal to Strand, or would it have opened his eyes? “I think if he would have found out that his family was dead, then he would have no reason to be loyal to Strand,” said Abtahi, who knew from the start his character had an expiration date. “So, yeah, if he found out his family was dead, yes, I would think he would fight back. If not, I think his loyalty, sadly, would have continued, and that's not uncommon in the real world, unfortunately.”

On the way to Morgan with the baby, Dorie spots Howard as a walker. Abtahi was happy to get to play that version of the character. “It was kind of like the cherry on the cake so to speak,” said the actor. “…It kind of capped my entire experience being part of The Walking Dead universe, and it was amazing. It took less than ninety minutes to do it all. It took about twenty minutes to take it off, and it was my very last day of shooting. So, it was definitely one of the more special days that I got to work. So yeah, I'm cemented in The Walking Dead universe.”

Carradine, who’s character was still alive but bitten at the end of the episode would not comment if he would be returning as a walker.

For more about the characters’ decisions, working together, stunts, what they will remember the show by, and much more, read the full transcript below and watch Fear the Walking Dead Sundays on AMC and AMC+.


SCIFI VISION:  Well, I'm sorry to see both of you go off the show. When did you guys find out that your characters were going to be no more?

OMID ABTAHI:  Keith, you want to go first? I think I remember that day. [laughs]

KEITH CARRADINE:  Well, it's hard not to remember that day. You never know. I mean, it's a living breathing thing, this process. As the show goes along, and as the story goes along, there's an energy that presents itself that the writers look at and respond to and make these kinds of decisions. So, I actually got the word as I was headed back to Austin from California to begin filming the second half of season seven. They said that they wanted to have a chat with me about my character and what was going to be coming. So, we got on the phone, and they let me know that they were making a choice that they felt would have the most impactful effect on on the story. They explained to me that the greatest impact that they could think of was to have my character be killed off. And I appreciated the the nature of the beast; that's  how these things work. What they gave me to do on my way out, it was fabulous. I'm grateful to have been a part of it and truly, truly grateful to have been given to do what they gave me to do.

OMID ABTAHI:  Absolutely, yeah. When I signed on, I pretty much knew I had an expiration date. I didn't know in what fashion it would happen, but, I mean, I fully went in knowing this was a limited run, at least from my part.

Can you both talk a bit about Keith, you throwing him off the building? Sort of the logistics of filming that stunt?

OMID ABTAHI:  Keith, you want to talk about it? Because he didn't actually throw me off; he threw my stunt guy off.

KEITH CARRADINE:  Yeah, and I don't think I was actually the one who threw off the stunt person.

So, neither of you did it! [laughs]

OMID ABTAHI:  I wasn’t there for it either!

KEITH CARRADINE:  Both Omid and I, we did everything that led right up to that exact moment, and I would grab him and take him towards the wall, but [that’s] the magic of cinema. They design these things in such a way that they take every precaution to make sure that no one can possibly be hurt. There was a there was a catch area below the wall that I think might have been about ten feet down, and they had a stunt person. I don't remember whether it was netting or netting and boxes.

OMID ABTAHI:  No, it was those big cushions like the big blue -

KEITH CARRADINE:  Right. Yeah, so the physical aspect of actually doing something like that, for a movie, you know, I've done a bunch of that kind of stuff, and I'm always impressed at how they can design these things for the camera and for the people involved. It's very effective. Then, of course, the stunt people and the action coordinators, they're all top notch. The interesting part was the psychological aspect of being in a relationship, working with Omid and trying to find a way to come to terms with the fact that I actually do what Strand asks me to do, which is just appalling. [laughs] That was, again, a moment for Dorie where he had to make a choice about what he thought he would have to do to ultimately do the best thing, where he had to kind of do one of the worst things imaginable to get to where he could do the best thing.

OMID ABTAHI:  But it’s the best character to do it to, because I'm sure you got a series of applause for throwing Howard off. [laughs]

KEITH CARRADINE:  [laughs] Howard was pretty despicable, although I have to say that the scene that Omid and I played where he reveals to me a lot about himself, I thought that added so many layers to his character, and I thought that gleaned some sympathy from the audience.

OMID ABTAHI:  Sure, a little bit, but if they weren’t going to throw Howard off, I would have thrown him off myself.

[laughs] Omid, can you talk about how you got to do the walker makeup, which had to be fun.

OMID ABTAHI:  It was kind of like the cherry on the cake so to speak. It was like going to Disneyland and getting to wear the Mickey ears. It kind of capped my entire experience being part of The Walking Dead universe, and it was amazing. It took less than ninety minutes to do it all. It took about twenty minutes to take it off, and it was my very last day of shooting. So, it was definitely one of the more special days that I got to work. So yeah, I'm cemented in The Walking Dead universe.

So, is there any chance - I guess you probably can't tell me anyway, but is there any chance we're going to get to see you as a walker, Keith? Or are you done? Or can you not tell me one way or the other?

KEITH CARRADINE:  I don't believe that I have permission to tell. [laughs]

All right. That’s fair. I have to ask, you never know.

That's a gray area, and I would have to say, “no comment.”

Okay. Fair enough. Omid, when I talked to you [earlier in the season] at the roundtable, I had asked you if Strand could push Howard too far. But I have to ask, now after the fact, if he hadn't had Dorie kill him, if he hadn't gone through with it, do you think that your character would have still trusted him? I mean, could it have moved on the way it was? Or do you think he would have eventually maybe turned on Strand?

OMID ABTAHI:  I mean, ultimately, that's a question for the writers. Maybe if it was a few episodes ago, I would think I would have told you he would have turned on Strand, but I think if he would have found out that his family was dead, then he would have no reason to be loyal to Strand. So, yeah, if he found out his family was dead, yes, I would think he would fight back. If not, I think his loyalty, sadly, would have continued, and that's not uncommon in the real world, unfortunately.

Do you think though he, I guess, ever worried that if he did find his family, that Strand would kill them? Because, I mean, everybody's somebody's family that he's thrown off the roof.

No, I don't. I don't think he allowed his mind to go there. I think he was taking things one day at a time, and he was living off the hope that his family would find that tower no matter how unlikely it would be. I mean, that's the only thing that kept him going, I think.

Right. Well, Keith, your character, obviously was already sick. He knew that. So, everything he did in this episode, did he really believe that he could get Strand to listen? Or do you think kind of in the back of his mind, he knew he was a goner anyway, and it was just kind of a last ditch effort? I’m just curious your take on that.

KEITH CARRADINE:  I think that what the writers had in mind, and my understanding of it, was that John had one over overriding concern, which was Mo and what is going to be best for that child. And I think that he could have gone either way, in terms of which side he came down on, in terms of who he was going to work with and cooperate with, as long as the end result was going to be the survival of that child under the best possible circumstances. So, I think that as he was dealing with Strand and Strand’s paranoia and obvious, complete unpredictability about how he might respond to any given situation. I think that he simply took every moment as it came and would make decisions in that time as to whether that was going to lead to him being able to do the best thing for the child. Then, finally, as you saw in the episode, when push came to shove, he had to make the choice that he made.

That was my other question. He was drinking at that point. You don't think that he necessarily had planned to do what he did to Strand? It was just kind of last minute, deciding to hit Strand, because he could have given killed him? I mean, he obviously had the opportunity, and he only knocked him out.

Yes, he could have killed him, but I think that, again, he was making choices and trying to be true to his own sense of morality, what was going to be ultimately the right thing to do. I think that he felt that he could accomplish rescuing the child by incapacitating Strand and not necessarily killing him. His moment with Howard, obviously that was a moment of expedience where he felt that “Okay, I have to do this. I'm gonna save this baby, and this guy has done a lot of bad stuff, so okay, I guess I'm just going to go ahead and do this.” I mean, he put Teddy (John Glover) away with surreptitious means, so he wasn't above doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and I think he says that at one point.

Right. But you think he probably knew he wasn't coming back, I assume, after he knocked Strand out and left?

KEITH CARRADINE:  Well, I think that he knew his time was up. He was sick; he was gonna die. He was fatally irradiated. So, he was just trying to make the best use of whatever time he might have left.

Were either of you either given anything or did you take anything from the set to kind of remember the show by?

KEITH CARRADINE:  Scars. [laughs]

OMID ABTAHI:  You know what, Marjery [Kimbrough], our script supervisor was very kind, and she actually came up to me, she's like, “Hey, what are your favorite scenes?” And I told her, and what she did was she gave me these coffee mugs, these portable coffee mugs, with the script wrapped around the cup.

KEITH CARRADINE:  She gave me one of those as well. That was very cool, a really sweet souvenir.

And I guess it could be a scene, but I was going to say, what was the most memorable moment that sticks out to you from the time you've been there?

KEITH CARRADINE:  That's tough. They're all memorable. I mean, it's interesting, because there are certain things that you're never going to forget, because of the physical challenge of having done it. You know, the time that we spent in that water in the basement, was very effective, but it sucked. Then, the opportunities that I had to play scenes with some of the best actors with whom I've ever worked: the scene that Omid and I got to do in his apartment. That was a wonderful, wonderful day. And the stuff that I got to do with Jenna [Elfman], particularly when we were locked in that school bus underground bunker, and the scenes that I was able to play with Coleman and with Lennie, I mean, everyone with whom I got to work. I mean, you take this stuff with you, and I've often said that it's the experience of the doing. That's the only thing you really get from any of this. If you've done something, and it's worth seeing in the end, that's a bonus, but all you really get is that time that you spend with these people, and it was magic. It was just a terrific experience.

OMID ABTAHI:  Yeah, that was well said, and same goes for me. Like I had the scene with Keith. It took place on a Saturday; it was, I guess, a five, six hour day. It was very relaxed. I thought it was a beautiful scene. So, that was one of my favorite scenes. Then, the scenes in the rain were hard to shoot. They were physically hard. Physically, I was cold. I was miserable, and I'll always remember those scenes. So, yeah, those two scenes are the ones that I'll probably keep with me.

Now, I'll ask you my silly one I usually ask. If you guys were in a real zombie apocalypse, do you think that you could survive, and what character would you take with you to help you survive?

KEITH CARRADINE:  Who would you choose to companion with to help with your survival?

Yes. It can be anybody in the whole The Walking Dead universe, any of the characters.

OMID ABTAHI:  Pre-nuclear or post-nuclear?...If it was post, I'd probably hang out with Grace (Karen David). She seems to know a lot about radiation, whatnot.

KEITH CARRADINE:  You know, I'd have to say that John, I mean, who he was thrown in with from the get go, which was June (Elfman), his daughter-in-law. She's an extraordinary character, and she knows medicine. So, you want to have that around.